Some wedding discussion

From Mah Rabu

• I think the obvious fully egalitarian approach to kiddushin is a “harei at mekudeshet” and a “harei ata mekudash” or some such.
  [[The purpose, as probably everyone reading here knows, is historically the exclusive claiming of the woman while the man can build up his financial resources to take on the burden of marriage and supporting a wife and family. ]]

  The tension, of course, in an egalitarian context, not to mention that that historical case is already no longer relevant for most modern weddings, is whether the purpose is to just change the language since the ritual is already bereft of its original function, or to radically reunderstand that perhaps this is like the kiddushin blessing says, to forbid others, and only permit our betrothed. The innovation would presumably be this mutual exclusivity.

  The nesuin is effectively about finishing the process the kiddushin started by permitting the betrothed to live together as life partners. I don’t think there’s anything particularly in need of update here. (Though the ketubah should also try to reflect egalitarianism as ours does.

  By  Benjamin, at June 19, 2009 3:08 PM

• As a followup to some comments, even by the time of the mishnah’s publication, the mishna keduma* of Kiddushin 1:1 that a woman is acquired in three ways (contract, cash, cohabitation) was superseded by Kiddushin 2:1 that a woman is “consecrated/mekudeshet”. i.e. not acquired. [[The talmud then discusses this and for the most part says you can't acquire a woman by sex anymore. I forget what it says specifically about shtar and kesef. (Though it always seemed to me that the current mode satisfies all three conditions: the ketubah (shtar), the ring (kesef), bia (the wedding night).)]]

  The ketubah originally specifies minimal values for the two types of women they envisioned: 100 for a widow, 200 for a virgin.

  לא כתב לה כתובה–בתולה גובה מאתיים, ואלמנה מנה: שהוא תנאי בית דין

  I know most people today recast betulah from virgin to never-before-married. With that in mind, that the received system is already ‘out of date’, and has been for a while, I could make an argument that maintaining this language does no harm.

  However, in our ketubah, we kicked any settlement down to a beit din’s decision at the time to avoid this issue.

  שומת בית דין תקבע סכום הפרעון של שטר כתובה זה בחיי החתן ולאחר אריכות ימיו מעתה ועד עולם. אחריות שטר כתובה זה קבל עליו החתן וכל נכסיו יהיו אחראים וערבים לפרוע מהם שטר כתובה זה.

  * The Mishnah as assembled by R’ Yehuda haNasi often contained strings of older (topical) teachings such as is found in Kiddushin, Megillah, and one of the Bava’s…

  By  Benjamin, at June 19, 2009 3:31 PM